AZHT sucks and it's all Paul's fault
 

This was originally intended to be a response to Paul's ban thread but I feel it deserves it's own thread. Although my effort will most likely be futile, I started this in attempt to have an open discussion about fixing the ghost town that is AZHT.

While I do agree that Paul enjoys his power, I personally don't think Paul is to blame for the downfall of AZHT. Most members who frequent the forum now have joined within the past couple years and really don't know the history of this forum which makes Paul the only target.

I think there were a few contributing factors that has led the forum to where it's at now. This forum was a booming shitfest back when it was azhtsquad and moderated by the OGs (Mooshin, 1 point 6, Big C etc). Around 07, after the name change, rules started being enforced but they were still very lax. Fast forward a few years, AZHT was sold, we had new rules and new mods were put in place. The new rules combined with, what seemed to be power abusing mods, is a large reason we're where we are today. I also think losing the Sedona run and Kiwanis really hurt AZHT as well. The Sedona run was the glue that held this forum together; it's what made it exciting and caught the attention of other enthusiasts.

We don't have any shops contributing because they have nothing to gain. Advertisers on here are nothing more than a colorful name with their own subsection that no one views. I'm really surprised any shops even bother with this site anymore. Whoever own/runs this forum is sitting in the back seat, like traffic is just going to eventually make its way here. That person needs to step up to the plate and put forth some effort to unify the members and vendors which is exactly what the Sedona run did.

While thunderdome is a great idea, until we get more/new members to contribute it's going to be the same fucked up circle jerk. If you guys truly want to bring AZHT back to life, let the douches douche and bring back the Sedona run or something equivalent. Right now we're all just reaching for straws and placing blame rather than looking at the bigger picture and trying to fix it. Fixing it will take time(years), but bitching clearly isn't going to solve anything.

Thunderdome away...

I really really miss Sedona runs. Getting up early on a crisp October morning and meeting up with friends for the cruise. I really miss it.

Facebook killed forums as we know it. Not just this forum. There are select, very large forums that remained fairly unscathed but they even felt it, you just don't notice it as much because they have so many members.

I am on numerous smaller forums of all genres, and FB really did a number on them.

Doubt you will ever see this forum booming again. Us older members are clinging onto this Vbulletin style forum, while the next generation is facebooking like a mother fucker.

IMO the fate of this forum is sealed. The only real option is to accept it will never be what it was, and just make the best of it, or flip the switch and turn it off. I do think it can be made better/more enjoyable, but it won't ever have mega traffic.

And if FB didn't ruin it, Paul would have anyway. He pretty much ruins everything. In highschool his nick-name was "The Ruin-er".

Slow Golf clap!!!!!

Oh I agree completely, there's no bringing it back to what it was but it can definitely be improved. Being a local forum, it has a better chance than some of these national forums. I also think it will get the attention of people who are tired of the Facebook shenanigans, which seems to be on the rise.

The problem is compounded by the Honda scene dying as a whole.

Even locally, I just don't see it being much better. Look at the local demographic of Honda owners.

I think it can be more enjoyable for the people that still exist, and maybe new members will trickle in over time with some changes, sure.

Hate to say it but part of the problem is new members get run off of here almost instantly. They post an intro, and 3 posts in you got people trolling them so hard, they just never come back.

But as you know, I am overly negative. lol

but Honestly even a post like Sir Mikey just posted, a couple years back would of gotten him banned.

I stopped owning a honda like most on here long ago. Why do I still cling on? Because hopefully it can be like it was once before, maybe... possibly.... I feel the hammer was waaaay too strong for a freaking local forum of enthusiasts for too long.

I come on here to read what some members still post from time to time. Heck I haven't even lived in AZ the last 3-4 years really but I'm still on here. There was a lot lost when the rules became so strict, when the sedona runs stopped happening, the local meets stopped happening, the stupid whatever for whatever.

Fuck I still remember the first sedona run where the fucking fastnfurious green eclipse showed up. That thing was a spectacle! I'm sure that got more eyes and laugh than any honda that was brought along except for the Golden hatch!!!

I remember getting rides to Eibach meet with importfan2 who I still talk to from time to time. A lot of those guys you can say where loud mouths in respect to how they acted on the forums, but fuck it was all in fun because if anyone really wanted to meet them you always buy something someone was selling.

I understand the rules about the classifieds. I like the rules, except the 50 post or whatever it might be. We should if it hasn't already get rid of it or not.... I think the guys asking for it might of thought AZHT was all to0 mighty to ever succumb to needing traffic from classifieds. If anything broaden the classifieds to generate more people to see it.

I know lots of people don't like posting their crap on Craigslist and would much rather post on forums if there was enough viewership on the site they frequented.

I just don't believe FB is the sole reasoning to ruining FB honestly. Eventually I am sure many will get off FB. Only reason I even have one at the moment is to keep in touch with my bro who's in the army.


edit-- this in no way an attack at a mod or Paulie. Just generalization. I like reading Pauls stories, theories, and his technical stuff on cars. Very insightful and I have never met him personally. even if this is thunderdom just want to make sure thats clear.

I agree with the honda scene dying, but like I have mentioned most of us don't even own hondas. I feel that even AZHT needed to change itself with the core members. Broaden its Horizon. How long have members asked to change the banner?


I remember we used to vote for who' will be on the banner next? We do monthly polls. I made sure I always voted. I liked that little perk. Stupid things like that add up, but AZHT just probably lacks leadership.

Nah it's true. I agree Honda's are dying out as well but it doesn't necessarily have to be just about Honda's anymore. We had quite a few domestic guys on here a few years back. I see a lot of finger pointing lately but no one does anything to try and fix it, which is why I started this thread. Like I said, I really doubt anything will come of it because it's just easier to bitch. The ideas are there though, I can't think of a single person that hated the Sedona run.

I agree with both Sir Mikey and Spec C, FB has appealed to the younger generation pulling members away. You also have a lot of the older members here who have literally just out grown not only Hondas but car stuff in general.

I remember back in the day when Big C and a lot of others were here posting all the time. You would see a lot more activity with meets, parties, cruises, track events etc. You also had a lot more participation from vendors. Vendors would post up projects, their own cars, dyno numbers and videos. You would see videos coming in regarding Jake, Locash, TSR and many others that would get people excited. I haven't seen that kind of activity since 2010 and it is disappointing, most of the time I just pop over to HT to see what's going on with events etc.

FS/FT threads also screw things up for AZHT as well. I understand you cannot get rid of FS/FT threads and I don't think we should. However I think we should enforce rules on creating FS/FT threads. For example, this morning when I logged on I seen the same guy's 9 FS/FT threads when I click on New Posts. He had 5 separate threads for interior parts, those 5 threads could be consolidated into 1. The guy also had 3 or 4 threads for suspension stuff, you could take those 9 threads and make them into either 1 or 2 threads so they don't clog everything up. I would also take away the 150 post count rule in order to sell, this would take away all the trolling, bumps on 6 year old threads etc.

Like Spec C said, you will never get AZHT back to what it used to be but a bit of cleaning up will go a long way.

I still have pictures somewhere. People were asking him what numbers that thing was making and he was very open about admitting it wasn't tuned and it was just all for show lol

That wasn't the first run though was it?

Yea, many don't own Honda's and remain, but the key word is REMAIN. You likely wouldn't join a Honda forum if you had no interest in Honda's.
Maybe you are the reason for this forum going down the shitter.

Lets look at the scientific facts.

Mikey had a car = forum was poppin
Mikey has no car = forum sucks dick

Only thing that ruins more shit than Paul, is gingers. FACT.

The scene is dying, you are right new people get run off, but that's because they only join to sell stuff. At least 90% of them at least.

The cars get bought and sold like trading cards and nobody wants to invest and actually do anything with them besides cheap mods.

Facebook killed this too, especially since Tapatalk version of this forum sucks and most people don't seem to have a computer anymore.

The Sedona run could come back if it had much better planning. But as you said there would need to be leadership, not so much Paul since he does the moderating and stuff, but a group of people that actually want to rebuild the community

Haha and kids, don't forget kids

The decline of the scene has an effect on everything. Including the Vendors. Couple that with theft, and it is easy to see why no one wants to post anything up worth anything. The scene has shifted to where high quality builds are the minority.

The scene has declined because :

1. The Hondas we love, are getting too rare to find in good shape.
2. Honda doesn't make anything that captures the enthusiasm like the "old days" anymore. Honda's current offerings are so far below their competition in the fun arena it is embarrassing.
3. The super cheap and poor condition of the Hondas we love put them at a price point where "bad" owners pick them up.
4. They then further destroy the car by improperly installing cheap parts, and not actually fixing / restoring anything.
5. Then the cars a beat on, driven to death, and flipped to the next sucker who continues the cycle.
6. You can't find a CRX, 92-95 Hatch, etc - that is worth the time anymore. It is a shame. The same piles of crap are in an endless loop from one bad owner to the next. None of these people care about repair, or restoration.

I don't like this anymore than anyone else - but it is sadly true. The Hondas were integral to the passion we all have for the "sport compact / import scene" but because they did not achieve a "future classic" and/or become a "iconic" car their values fell to the point where every asshat with a monthly budget of $3.50 bought them to make the "race cars."

We still have meets. I have worked pretty hard to get the North Phoenix meet back to some resemblance of a actual meet - there are members that drive 20+ miles to come. Bri organized a Prescott cruise that was a blast.

I have organized and held two "AZHT Shooting/Firearms" meets, and a couple years ago I organized two Papago Park meets. Why did most people not know this? It was for VIP members and invite only - solely because we did not want any riff-raff showing up. It was fun, and two people nearly died on my scooters. I used to help organize the now defunct "Cruises on Main" in Mesa. I had several threads inviting Honda Owners to come. Even had the option of their own section in parking. How many showed? One.

It isn't like what it used to be - but there are still a small amount of people here who still like to hang out in person.

Everyone wants to have get together - but no one is willing to do the leg work. With the exception of Bri, Joe, and myself - I haven't seen anything "new" pop up for meets in a long, long time.

It is one thing to complain and live in the past and recall the great meets from years gone by - but maybe if a few of you that do this would get together and redirect the effort, you could start something new.

We need the people who come on just to sell stuff. When az part trader closed AZHT had a flood of people join. Some may join just to sell stuff, but a good portion will also jump to other sections over time as well.

As for a meet equivalent to Sedona, it wouldn't take much to plan. We can't use that park anymore but there's no reason we can't switch to a park in Prescott or something.

I bet if I organized another Papago Park meet - most of the people who complain about lack of meets wouldn't show.

Same lame excuses everytime.

I was totally stunned at the amount of people that showed to the Prescott run several months ago.

Another issue - people can't be bothered to actually say if they are coming or not. It is infuriating. I usually supply the meat and cheese for these things as I only buy/eat top notch stuff. Nothing is more annoying than spending 70-140 bucks on such things and either buying way too much because the asshats who swore they were coming did not, or not having enough because 10 people lurked in the thread and couldn't be bothered to post "I'm in."

That's funny. All the people that are complaining about how the scene is dying. How come I never see you come out to the meets?

I drive hella far to get there, and I make time out of my busy schedule to show.

SpecC, Gaylude, AZCivic, SirMikey. I see you guys post a lot, but never actually seen your car or faces.

Are you saying this in general or just from what you see in AZ or AZHT? I know some of the Vendors on AZHT and why they don't post, it's not because of theft.

If you know the vendors and reason - why complain about it instead of trying to fix it, or at least post the reasons.

it's because nobody has money or wants to buy nice stuff for their car

maxxspeed, ebay, & dropship shops are undercutting everything

that and everyone all of a sudden knows how to e-tune

Because they are dead. It's chicken or the egg, are they dead cause people like me think they are and don't go? Or do I not go because they are dead? Either way I have 2 kids and a wife and don't want to sit around with 6 other guys at a meet. When I do go to things I take my family and we go to care shows. The dice alliance shows are usually pretty cool, all types of cars like the pavs but not a bunch of jerkoffs trying to be cool. I don't post anything car related here anymore, I have a crx project I posted on k20a.org because I knew if I put it here I'd get told by 50 people that I'm building my car wrong. Or 50 people saying needs moar low, slam it on offsets. Shits just not funny it's stupid

Require an RSVP by X day and $3-5 PayPal'd to you per person with that RSVP. Annual meets with 2 months notice are generally much easier to plan for and take serious as well.

To be honest I really don't care what happens to AZHT, it's nothing more than my entertainment when I take a shit. I own bone stock cars that are anything but interesting, I haven't even modified car of any sort for over 4 years. I also run a business and have a family, trying to catch a 2 hour gym session with Spec once a month is like planning a vacation. The only reason I started this thread was because this seems to be a constant issue that only ends in a bunch of finger pointing, no one tries to come up with a solution.

I go down to TSR and Locash or at least call them quite a bit, hell Joe lives a few miles from my house. Joe is usually slammed busy with his CNC business and Aaron is working on cars all the time. If you go down to those shops there are always new cars and cool builds going on. So it's not a lack of money or people wanting to buy nice stuff. I know Joe still sells front ends and those fly off the shelf, so I know people buy stuff.

When there are race events, go down to Vtec Alley and see how many people are down there getting ready, it's like a zoo.

I know everyone has heard of Exospeed rims, those things a few years stop getting produced. However because so many people are looking for those rims they are back in production and selling. If you look at HT there are a ton of people and vendors selling and building new stuff all the time.

Take a look at this vendor MIR, the new billet turbo they came up with. Building Hondas is not dead. Tons of new stuff coming out all the time for Hondas!!

My wife also misses the sense of community we had back when, she rolled her 87 hatch to the last Sedona run with me before it got dissolved. we are actually saving to buy an Fj because we are moving to Colorado (hopefully) next year and they have awesome meets and trail rides. I'm really excited for that. I have an ep3 right now but I'd be ok without it. I just have my crx project and my wife's old hatch as the project after that but then I'm done. Those two old civics will get tucked away into storage and I'll pull them out when I'm feeling nostalgic lol

Hell I am 32 with a wife and a 12 year old in 7th grade, me going to a meet to hang out with guys ranging from 18-22 is not my thing. I have never been a meet guy at all, I went to 1 meet in my life and no one showed up so I left.

My car also runs on ignite 114 which is between 10-15 dollars a gallon, heck I have to go down to Joe's next week to retune on E98 because he doesn't carry ignite anymore and I don't want to buy a 700 dollar drum of it.

I actually do go to the track though, I try and get out to the track at least once a month or more depending on weather. So if you went out to the track you would probably see me and my car. My car is purpose built for the track and that is where it belongs, other than that I drive a 100% stock TSX and my wife drive a 100% stock TL.

Cool story man. I was driving hours to meets when you were pissing your pants, playing pokemon, and drinking juice boxes(although that may have been as recent as 2 years ago). You're in a honeymoon phase right now. All this shit is new and exciting to you right now.

For me, it lost a bit of it's luster since I moved here from NY where the car scene was WAY better. Infinitely larger % of hardcore enthusiasts, racing, etc. Going from having a group of friends, constantly wrenching/building each others cars, to not having any like minded friends, that live close to me, has taken some of the wind out of my sails. It is an excuse, sure, but it is what it is.

Fact is, I don't go to AZHT meets because I don't know anyone..lol Anyone who knows me in real life, knows I am not a social butterfly(to say the least). If RC, Mikey, or 1bad decide they want to go, I will gladly go, anytime. I am just not one to roll up to a meet solo.

I go to the Eastside AZFT meets from time to time though. I like that meet because people actually will put their cars to use(which I know some of you frown upon) but it is what I enjoy.

I'm really confused.

You guys complain and say you miss meets and community. And now that I present an argument saying that there is a community (small as it may be), you want to take no part in it. I'm pretty sure most of the guys (Paul, Joe, etc.) are your age or older. Joe just turned 30, so saying you're 32 and don't want to hang out with a bunch of kids is somewhat ignorant of the community we have. I'm one of the youngest of the group. Saying you don't know anyone is also moot. You can roll up because we DO know you. We know you through here! Roll up in your stock TSX, who cares. Paul comes in his bone stock 90's FWD Corolla all the time. It's more about community than it is about cars anyways.

I would love to read about your builds, be they LS RX7s/996s, K-swap CRXs, or what not. But you don't post in fear of people criticizing them? You know how much hate I got when I said I was putting a Honda motor in a Toyota car? I post for the 2 that want to read, not for the 50 that say I'm doing it wrong. I'm ASKING you to post because I would love to read about those things happening here in AZ. I can go on Speedhunters if I want to read something cool. Posting it here makes it special because it is something local!

Perhaps I'm missing the big picture of what it is you guys actually want.

haha, the pokemon had me rollin spec.

The site is outdated and never updated. It needs to become an open forum with a new name to attract a broad range of car makes. Facebook log in would get the new generation to log in.