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Old 02-24-2012, 03:58 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by 2point6 View Post
Correction... he is "weighing". LOL
Yeah it'd do no good to balance the crank off that weight up there, that was just one of those "I wonder" moments since my build is on hiatus. I'll order the rods either this week coming up or the next. Then I can get some real weights and balance the crankshaft if need be. I don't know many people who have actually taken this step on their builds.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:29 PM   #62
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Yeah it'd do no good to balance the crank off that weight up there, that was just one of those "I wonder" moments since my build is on hiatus. I'll order the rods either this week coming up or the next. Then I can get some real weights and balance the crankshaft if need be. I don't know many people who have actually taken this step on their builds.
Out of the almost 300 engines I have built over the years, not a single one has left WITHOUT doing this step.
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:38 PM   #63
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Yes I know its not technically "balancing" but simplified its what balancing is. I'd highly recommend doing this to any engine where you replace bearings and rings. So pretty much any build.
I didn't know you balanced Scott?
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Old 02-24-2012, 04:50 PM   #64
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Yes I know its not technically "balancing" but simplified its what balancing is. I'd highly recommend doing this to any engine where you replace bearings and rings. So pretty much any build.
I didn't know you balanced Scott?
I was just messing with you, but even still, he is just weighing the parts. "Balancing" is grinding or drilling material off of the parts to make them all weigh the same. You already know this...

I don't do the balancing "in house", but yes EVERY engine I have built has had it's entire rotating assembly balanced. In some cases I even have the crank pulleys, flywheels and clutch assemblies balanced as well.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:30 PM   #65
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Scott does serious bidness.
Good news guise, I forgot I gave a buddy of mine an h22 like a year ago and he offered to give me the rods for free since he hasn't done anything with it. It's only three rods because one is broken but I also found a guy in phx with an extra rod. So a new set of rods for me for $15 total
Scott you mentioned ARP hardware for the rods, would you happen to have a part number I could have to get the rod bolts strengthened? And about how much hp do you estimate I could throw at them?
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:38 PM   #66
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Scott does serious bidness.
Good news guise, I forgot I gave a buddy of mine an h22 like a year ago and he offered to give me the rods for free since he hasn't done anything with it. It's only three rods because one is broken but I also found a guy in phx with an extra rod. So a new set of rods for me for $15 total
Scott you mentioned ARP hardware for the rods, would you happen to have a part number I could have to get the rod bolts strengthened? And about how much hp do you estimate I could throw at them?
Make sure that all of the markings on the "web" of each rod are the same. Also make sure that the markings on the rod cap are the same.

I don't have the ARP number off the top of my head, but they are Pro series 9mm bolts.

The stock ones cannot be strengthened, but they can be replaced.

You should have no problem with 400 to 450 whp (with tuning) on these.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:43 PM   #67
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Yeah that's what I meant, strengthen the rods with the ARP hardware. I'll spend some time tonight googling it.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:01 PM   #68
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Btw the ARP rod bolts on those F22 forged rods should work the same on the H22 rods...
I need my rotating assembly balanced but my machinist is lagging and I don't want to take him all my parts and wait 4 weeks for it to get done.
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:03 PM   #69
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Oh and Rzagizza, if your worried about strength on stock rods, why not cryo treat them? Its fairly cheap.
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:21 PM   #70
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Oh and Rzagizza, if your worried about strength on stock rods, why not cryo treat them? Its fairly cheap.
I was talking to a group of guys about that, i have noooo clue where to get it done. And turnaround time for my crank would be high too. Ghey....
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:09 PM   #71
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? about the balancing. don't you actually "over balance" to make up for higher rpm? I worked in a shop that did all of this but left before I could acutally learn much about balancing. also we mainly only worked on V8's. 80's and older I know inline motors are differant as far as balancing and such goes.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:22 PM   #72
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? about the balancing. don't you actually "over balance" to make up for higher rpm? I worked in a shop that did all of this but left before I could acutally learn much about balancing. also we mainly only worked on V8's. 80's and older I know inline motors are differant as far as balancing and such goes.
Once it is balanced, it is balanced. RPM doesn't matter.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:55 PM   #73
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Update:
Block and head were disassembled to be sent to the machine shop tomorrow morning.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:56 PM   #74
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Got my head and block back today from the machine shop. Also installed a new thermo unit on the head since the last one broke off. The head has all new seals and a three angle valve job. The block is in good shape now and ready to be assembled once I get my rods. I also spoke to the machinist about taking my old rods off and putting new ones on my pistons, to which he replied that there is no guarantee things will be ok. He says sometimes the pistons break due to the press they have to use. I'm not too thrilled about that since the pistons have like zero miles on them, so I may be looking to another shop for that. Also checked the cc's on my head and came up with 47, I will probably get bored later tonight and slip the crank in with the shorter rods and crunch some numbers to see what my static compression ratio will be.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:31 PM   #75
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Um aren't your pistons and rods forged? They should be floated wrist pins and a breeze to take apart. I wouldn't trust that shop if they can't handle that simple task.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:42 PM   #76
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sound like he should send the motor over to you and get it taken care of properly so he stops wasting his hard earned cash on this and that and just have a running motor that does the job with out blowing up either the top or bottom end just saying
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:17 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by SovietSuperSoldier View Post
Um aren't your pistons and rods forged? They should be floated wrist pins and a breeze to take apart. I wouldn't trust that shop if they can't handle that simple task.
That's what had me like "huh?", either way my trust in them dropped.

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sound like he should send the motor over to you and get it taken care of properly so he stops wasting his hard earned cash on this and that and just have a running motor that does the job with out blowing up either the top or bottom end just saying
Nothing will blow on this thing, its over built as it is. Plus I don't want anyone else to build it for me because its my first build and I'm learning a ton as I go. I know for a fact my next engine will go much smoother lol.
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:11 PM   #78
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thats respectful and good job man u gots more balls then i do at this time i'll be looking to swap within the next 2 years maybe a built b18 idk yet i need more research myself
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Old 03-08-2012, 09:42 PM   #79
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What engine do you have in there now?
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:25 PM   #80
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a20a carb its nice but have NO BALLS lol
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:35 AM   #81
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a20a carb its nice but have NO BALLS lol
Oh man I hate carbs on Hondas, when you swap it id love to see it!
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:13 AM   #82
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^^^ You've never seen or driven a real carb'd Honda then. I LOVE big carb's on old school Honda! Instant throttle response and it sounds bitchin! My friend has a dual Weber'd A20a3 in his Prelude and its torquey and fun to drive. And it sounds so different.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:11 AM   #83
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Lol man that'd be awesome to check out! All I've seen are old ass ones with vacuum hoses galore.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:54 AM   #84
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Ok so after spending some time alone with my engine, caressing her ever so gently, I come to the realization that the H22 rods are no longer an option.
After decking my block 0.010 I have the F22 rod and piston combo sitting 0.051 below the deck. If I add the H22 rods I will have 0.009 positive deck height. I cannot have this since the head was resurfaced also and the valves will come close to making contact. So it is my firm belief that the block that I've dumped lots of money into already was not unmolested like I had thought, and it was milled down before, more than I would have liked.
So my solution is to continue on with the F22 rod H22 crank combo and run with the sunken piston at TDC. This will add 1.84cc to my chamber and make my compression at 8.74:1, just a hair under stock, instead of the intended 9.0:1 designed with the pistons. It will also allow room for a hotter cam in the future instead of worrying about contact with the other route.
So the assembly begins on my next few days off....
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:13 AM   #85
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Ok so after spending some time alone with my engine, caressing her ever so gently, I come to the realization that the H22 rods are no longer an option.
After decking my block 0.010 I have the F22 rod and piston combo sitting 0.051 below the deck. If I add the H22 rods I will have 0.009 positive deck height. I cannot have this since the head was resurfaced also and the valves will come close to making contact. So it is my firm belief that the block that I've dumped lots of money into already was not unmolested like I had thought, and it was milled down before, more than I would have liked.
So my solution is to continue on with the F22 rod H22 crank combo and run with the sunken piston at TDC. This will add 1.84cc to my chamber and make my compression at 8.74:1, just a hair under stock, instead of the intended 9.0:1 designed with the pistons. It will also allow room for a hotter cam in the future instead of worrying about contact with the other route.
So the assembly begins on my next few days off....
.009" is not a big deal at all. This is a much better choice than putting a shorter rod in. There are people who build engines all the time and run things much closer than what you are worrying about. I am not naming any names though... If you are that worried about the clearance, just add an extra layer to your head gasket or order a Cometic that is a little thicker than stock.

Stop focussing on your compression ratio. Tuning will take care of any concern you might have.

Also, your thoughts on a "hotter cam" are wrong as well. Although a shorter rod, will give you more "clearance", you will have a very lazy motor and a more aggressive cam will be even more counter productive. Compression and the right camshaft work hand-in-hand.
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:55 PM   #86
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I'd rather stick with the ability to replace the head gasket with a stock one without needing to order a custom one, plus it won't be much lazier than it was at stock, although I do agree running .009 above the deck would make it a snappy engine I have to admit its a poorly planned build, my first build. So to play it safe ill stick with what I have. Besides the lower comp will allow for more power to be made overall without the need of switching to a race gas. I've thought of the things you mentioned above and to be honest I have to admit when I fucked up. And I fucked up from the get go with not measuring the block from the very beginning. But there is no harm in this, lessons were learned and the next time I build one, which will be soon, I will know what to do thanks to you guys and trial and error.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:05 PM   #87
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It sounds like he's stuck on running a crappy rod and crank combo. But to each his own. Your compression isn't a huge concern since your boosting. But its your engine. You can build it however you feel.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #88
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What makes this a crappy rod/crank combo? Can't be the numbers because the ratio between this and the before mentioned set up are barely different, both offer better performance and reliability than using the stock F22 crank. Can't be the design because the rods are forged h beam units. Only thing is that they are shorter and place my piston below the deck to offer room for error later on. I don't know why you bring up compression, I was just stating the numbers for reference, the difference between the two rods had a difference of about 0.3 on the static CR. Not a huge difference and not a deciding factor for me. Both rods would provide a safe to tune ratio with room for error and promoted reliability. It's the fact that I want to be able to have that extra cushion with the option of simply going to Honda and picking up an F23 head gasket for cheap when I have to take the head off next. So use the stronger rods with a slightly lower RS ratio, still better than stock, have a touch lower static CR, and gain 1.5mm clearance between my pistons and valves? Respectfully, I think its a good idea. Why wouldn't it be?
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Last edited by Rzarectah; 03-11-2012 at 01:52 AM.. Reason: busy busy day, finally got time
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:25 PM   #89
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i spent all last night replacing the valve cover gasket and painting red to find out i had a leak on the pan too s.o.b this sux plus im on a huge budget rrrrrrr
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:26 PM   #90
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oh and yea if i ever have a broken vacuum line im screwed
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