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Rzarectah 02-14-2012 09:57 PM

Rza's F22B2 Build
 
So I finally decided to create an engine build thread, for two reasons. The first is to help enlighten anyone deciding to build their F22B2 for boost. The second is to help me document my journey on my first engine build. Since this is my first build I strongly encourage feedback, both positive and negative!
Now I decided to use the F22B2 because of its strong cylinder walls and its ability to hold boost well. The stock internals, however, are not great at all for a performance engine. The rods are thin and weak, the pistons are pissed on, and the crank is a cast unit and not very strong. To remedy some of the issues here I opted for Bisimoto spec Arias 86mm pistons, Cal Auto Transpeed forged rods, and an H22 stock crank.
Now I know what some of you are thinking, the crank is about 4-5mm shorter so why use it? Well because its a forged unit so its good for up to 600hp, and I already have positive deck height with this rod/piston combo. This will fix my main concern of piston to head contact and it will allow for higher RPMs. At the expense of some low end power, which is fine since the car will be seeing road course duty when its all done. So I will spend little time under 3k. Along with this set up I will take the block to get decked approximately 0.040 to recover some compression. The head will see some shaving also. The estimated cr will be around 8.0:1 but that figure is up in the air until I get the block measured and so forth.

Concerns- possibility of the oil control rings coming out of the cylinders at bdc. The compression being too low to the point its just not ethical. Valve float at 8k due to fatigued springs.

There is more on the build and I'm going to update periodically with info and pics.

Viz 02-14-2012 10:06 PM

Subscribing to your thread man..good luck...i can't give much feedback but am definitely interested to see the outcome

Rzarectah 02-14-2012 10:06 PM

Here is a picture of the engine as is. It was built but the block was warped 0.008in and caused a huge leak, so this is round two for me and I decided to go a different direction with it.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...5/IMAG0523.jpg

Rzarectah 02-14-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viz (Post 2703189)
Subscribing to your thread man..good luck...i can't give much feedback but am definitely interested to see the outcome

Thanks man. I'm looking at it as a great chance to learn about engines. I do t expect to build a monster, just a very very reliable 350whp car I can beat on like it was rihanna and I was chris brown.

Viz 02-14-2012 10:12 PM

Haha iseewhatyoudidthere

2point6 02-14-2012 10:31 PM

I disagree with your comment on the cranksaft. The 95mm crank is forged Just like the rest of the honda cranks.

richpayn 02-14-2012 11:04 PM

nice motor

jdm egizzle 6 02-15-2012 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2point6 (Post 2703221)
I disagree with your comment on the cranksaft. The 95mm crank is forged Just like the rest of the honda cranks.

That's what I was thinking

Jason.AZ1 02-15-2012 02:44 AM

I think dedspool can help you with a turbo kit and tune he runs the streets and has the fastest honda in az built and tuned by himself.



Looks good so far man what kit you plannning on buying or building your own?

Rzarectah 02-15-2012 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2point6 (Post 2703221)
I disagree with your comment on the cranksaft. The 95mm crank is forged Just like the rest of the honda cranks.

I'll take your word for it, I'd be willing to be you know more about it than me lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason.Az1 (Post 2703402)
I think dedspool can help you with a turbo kit and tune he runs the streets and has the fastest honda in az built and tuned by himself.



Looks good so far man what kit you plannning on buying or building your own?

I'm building my own, ill post up pics for you later today

Rzarectah 02-15-2012 05:09 AM

Pics of the manifold and T04E turbo. The turbo will be rebuilt before use. The manifold was made by Spoolin Performance a couple years ago so its kinda dusty lol.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...5/IMAG0605.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...5/IMAG0606.jpg

And dedspool isn't going to lay a finger on my car! I picked up a P72 and a Hondata S300 V.2 so Joe will be doing my tuning

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...5/IMAG0604.jpg

jdm egizzle 6 02-15-2012 11:28 AM

Why not throw a h23 head in while your at it????

Rzarectah 02-15-2012 12:32 PM

Well I have a spare head I was going to build up I think you can see it in one of the pics, but anyway I haven't yet considered the different heads I can use or if I want to even switch. I can make my power goal with the head that's on the block now so upgrading would just be an expense I don't need right now.

Rzarectah 02-18-2012 12:23 PM

I dropped the oil pan today and took a look at one concern I had, if changing the crank would cause the oil control rings to come past the cylinder walls. Then I realized it will actually do the reverse and put the pistons more centered into the cylinders, meaning destroke it, hence the terms destroke haha. That's good news, over the next few days I Will completely disassemble and get the block, head, and crank to the machine shop for some work.

2point6 02-18-2012 01:54 PM

What length rods did you use?

Rzarectah 02-18-2012 08:14 PM

They are standard f22 size, 141.5mm. Combined with the H22 crank this will put my rod/stroke ratio at 1.56, which is better than the stock 1.489 that I was working with. This set up should drop the pistons, with the block as is, to 0.149 below the deck, or rather just a little more than 1/8th of an inch. I will still mill approximately 0.050 off the block if possible. The limiting factor here is the oil pressure sensor on the rear of the deck.

2point6 02-18-2012 08:47 PM

Sir, in my opinion, you are making a mistake with that combination.

Rzarectah 02-18-2012 08:57 PM

Please do elaborate before its too late!

2point6 02-18-2012 09:10 PM

Using the shorter rod, then taking material off the block is the wrong way to go. Either use the stock f22 crank with the rods you have or use h22 length rods with the h22 crank. What is the compression height of the pistons you are using?

Rzarectah 02-18-2012 09:49 PM

The compression height of the ones I'm using is 30.73mm versus the stock 30.5mm. With the mods done as is I have an added 2cc in the chamber, dropping my compression from the designed 9.1:1 to near stock 8.87:1

2point6 02-18-2012 09:55 PM

I really am confused by what you are trying to achieve. You seem really Hung up on compression ratio. Let's start over... What are you trying to do and why?

Rzarectah 02-19-2012 12:36 AM

I am trying to destroke my engine a little bit to move my powerband a little higher. The engine as is, is a long stroke engine and by shortening the stroke and boring the cylinders I can make it closer to being a square engine. Why? Because all the great engines are squared! It is a known fact that engines with the same displacement but different stroke ratios will make different power. The one with the better ratio is capable of making more power, that power is made in the upper rpms. Raise the ability to rev higher with a better stroke ratio and you create a better engine. It's all about friction loss from the rings during the stroke, shorter stroke equals less friction. By doing this build my undersquared F22 will become become squared with the likes of the 2JZ and SR20, which we all know are turbo monsters. I have to be weary of the compression because taking the stroke away from the engine will also drop the compression, I would like the ability to spool at a decent rate so it can't get too low.
Ultimate goal: overbuild a 350whp turbo engine that I firmly believe in to rev up to 8-8.5k and be reliable enough for the worst abuse I could put it through.

2point6 02-19-2012 09:50 AM

I have been builing engines horribly wrong, according to your explanation above. ;)

Use the h22 crank and rods. You will be more than able to achieve your goal reliably.

Rzarectah 02-19-2012 10:41 AM

Lol, if I can find some cheap forged ones I just may, that'd save me from take an excessive amount off my block. But for now its kinda about using what I have to get it done since my original plan fell through.

2point6 02-19-2012 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rzarectah (Post 2708437)
Lol, if I can find some cheap forged ones I just may, that'd save me from take an excessive amount off my block. But for now its kinda about using what I have to get it done since my original plan fell through.

You will be sad if you take the material off of the block. Don't do it.

A set of stock h22 rods will handle 350 whp no problem.

Rzarectah 02-19-2012 12:38 PM

What are the repercussions of milling it down too far?

PENTAGRAM_OF_EVIL 02-20-2012 01:40 AM

engine looks sexy but would agree with Scott on a few.

2point6 02-20-2012 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rzarectah (Post 2708504)
What are the repercussions of milling it down too far?

Once the material is gone... it's gone. Milling the block, like milling the head changes the camshaft/crankshaft orientation. Yes, this can be helped by the use of adjustable cam gears, but why make things much harder than they need to be?

Rzarectah 02-20-2012 11:11 AM

Ahh I see sensai, a Bisi adjustable gear was already in the plan :)

2point6 02-20-2012 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rzarectah (Post 2709664)
Ahh I see sensai, a Bisi adjustable gear was already in the plan :)

In this case, the cam gear will be a "band aid" if you go your intended route.

You do realize that using the 90.7mm H22 stroke crank and the 143mm H22 rods will give you a 1.577 R/S ratio, right?


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