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-   -   b16a2 turbo w/ stock internals preplanning need help (http://www.azht.net/forum/showthread.php?t=124783)

Method520 04-25-2010 01:21 PM

b16a2 turbo w/ stock internals preplanning need help
 
iv been considering getting myself a powerful budget friendly setup within the next few months, this is if i decide not to save a little more and get an s2000. so iv got some money saved, and i plan on spending roughly 6000 on an em1 as soon as i find a decent unmolested one. and i plan to go turbo with the b16a, but i want to keep stock internals, just for ease of keeping it simple and inespensive. but thats the problem, iv heard of ppl who do recommend it and dont recomend turboing b16s without building the motor cause theyv had bad experiences.

im hoping to go turbo with everything stock besides like manifolds and injectors, with a hondata tune, 7-8lbs of boost. Does that sound reasonable and reliable? i havent done all my research yet, but im doing my preplanning right now, still deciding whether that would be the best route. If i were to go that way, what kind of money would i be looking to spend? im hoping to stay around $3000. if i can get it done for cheaper let me know, or if its gunna take more than that, im really not the expert when it comes to this, but i just need some inexpensive fun.

any input would be great

JspecSi 04-25-2010 01:45 PM

A little more than that, turbo kit will already use about half of your budget. Hondata is another $800 ish,a good tune $450,clutch kit (your going to need it) $300-450. Possibly labor if your not putting the kit on your self and misc little things your going to need. I suggest motor mounts increasing the efficiency of the motor by 70-90% you will break those mounts specially the driver side on em1's.

AZ_CIVIC 04-26-2010 02:25 PM

Here we go:

Hondata is around $575 if you don't have an ecu.
Tune is $450
You can find used RC 550 all day for $150 - $200
Stock fuel pump is good to like 300WHP so no cost
clutch is around $400

So right There you are at $1625

Intercooler Treadstone brand new intercooler $200
Treadstone Intercooler piping kit $150
Treadstone oil line kit which includes turbo oil line and oil return and fittings $50
Tial Wastegate and BOV both are about $500 new you can find used ones on here for cheaper.
Turbo go for like a Garrett 57 or 60 trim used about 350 new about $550
Manifold if you are keeping AC/PS Inline Pro is a very nice one $499

So all said and done You are looking at about $3574.00 with all new turbo set up, clutch, injectors, Hondata, and tune. You will also need to tap your oil pan or buy a Moroso replacement with the bungs already done for $125.

Oh and labor if you can't do any of this most likely around $500.

imm0rtal 04-26-2010 02:30 PM

had a friend running a B16a with only pistons and rods that made around 300whp daily driven. It's really all in the tune and the parts you use. He used high quality parts on the build, and it ran like a champ with no problems, leaks, etc until he sold it to another friend of mine who ran the same boost setup on track with no issues :thumbsup:

Method520 04-26-2010 02:47 PM

well this is what i mean. im not looking for the best possible setup, is a clutch really necessary if im gunna be throwin down 7lbs on the weekends? idk i guess that kinda makes sense, im really only looking for a budget turbo setup that wont blow my motor, but still give me a lil non naturally aspirated fun, i was thinking this way as opposed to a dseries build so i could not have to get into the motor as much but guess its not doable

1slwej1 04-26-2010 11:47 PM

Yeah I would highly recomend you 2 replace clutch and moounts

frtech 04-27-2010 08:50 AM

I would recommend going with a Walbro in tank fuel pump also.

Method520 04-27-2010 12:07 PM

intank fuel pump? so is that something i would have to get professionally installed? or can i just get in there myself

TypeREgg 04-27-2010 12:12 PM

no its something u can do

ej6pusha1998 04-27-2010 12:25 PM

x2 for mounts and a clutch, those will be the first to shit the bed on ya if ya dont. I've had a lot of luck with exedy stage 1's and hasport mounts.

AZ_CIVIC 04-27-2010 12:44 PM

All you really need mount wise is a driver mount. I use a Hasport driver side mount, stock tranny mount, stock rear motor mount with an insert.

imm0rtal 04-27-2010 01:13 PM

That's the dumbest fucking idea I have ever heard. So you're saying you only want one side of your motor to be stiff? do you enjoy pulling to one side at full throttle?

Do it right. Get the full set of hasports, use your stock torque mounts with them, and you're set. Never have to worry, do it once and done. Replace your clutch to a beefier one and you should be able to hold the power. Traction bars would help out a lot too and can be had for pretty cheap :thumbsup:

AZ_CIVIC 04-27-2010 01:53 PM

Never really had any problems with my car pulling to one side with 600 horsepower, I also added a traction bar on my car and it never made any difference to me as well. Didn't improve my 60 ft times at all, not saying it can't work but for it to work right you have to play with it alot to pre load it correctly. I would much rather get an LSD transmission first before a traction bar, also having the correct shocks and spring or a good set of coilovers and an alignment is also very important. Boost options is important, boost by gear, you will have to play with this alot to help launch, 60 foot times, etc.
Depending on horsepower slick size, but then again he is planning on running 6 pounds of boost on a stock b16, so we are talking about maybe 240 horsepower.

phxz6 04-27-2010 03:07 PM

You can buy dsm 450cc for about $100 if you dont want to buy RC550

JDM Jon 04-27-2010 03:36 PM

All I can say is, expect to pay more than you think.
In order to keep it a nice, sturdy, reliable car, there are tons of other little things that are necessary that get overlooked.
I had the same mindset as you at first with my build. Then I was told upgrade this upgrade that. It gets expensive quick.

4_door_gsr 04-28-2010 06:54 AM


x2!

Method520 04-28-2010 03:52 PM

how big are the factory em1 injectors anyways? like 240cc or somewhere around there


thanks for the input all btw. and who knew unbalanced motor mounts would pull ur car from one side to another, if i consider going FI, im probably going to go with a full set of hasport mounts, i was lookin at the dsmparts site and the prices dont look too bad for your CCs. im sure theres a difference between replacing a fuel pump in the fuel cell, and up in the hood but havent heard too much about that so im gunna keep researching.

an aftermarket stage1 clutch sounds doable, but i figure that could just be something to worry about once i finish the setup and really see what effect it has on my stock clutch.

ill also be looking at alternatives to hondata, it seems as though most people who go with the reliable setup use hondata, but at the same time, its real pricey.

4_door_gsr 04-28-2010 04:44 PM

you get what you pay for. if you want it done right and reliable dont skimp out on cheap faulty parts, save a little and buy the good stuff you wont regret it.

Method520 04-28-2010 09:16 PM

right, but to exadurate a bit, is there a specific reason turbo kits such as this one from ebay- speeddaddy would be so inexpensive. of course im sure the turbocharger itself is shit, but its really just a bunch of piping and intercooler, what can be so bad about those parts?


Method520 04-28-2010 09:48 PM

^^ as i was saying, im not going to get into the internals. i really want to keep my request specific in that if i have to drop it to 6lbs in order to stay out of the motor, thats what ill do. i really just want to do a project and have some veriaty, and turbocharging will definitely give me some more variables & options. and i know people who ball on 8 or 9 lbs in a b16 so im aware its not impossible to do such a thing while keeping it reliable

4_door_gsr 04-29-2010 11:51 AM

^^^ the reason ebay kits are so cheap is beacause they are made out of cheap chinamen parts that fail. i would strongly recomend not going that route but if you do i would save up for a new motor.





umm thats 450 for a full dyno tune a locash racing. i dont think ericks racing can garantee to make more power then joe. :hithead:

Method520 04-29-2010 01:07 PM

^^ well ill take ur word for it.. but its ganna take longer to come up with the setup. illl probably find good deals over time, and just add on (ie clutch, injectors etc.) over time.

how should i go about installation? im sure i can figure out a way to fit it on my own, but when it comes to the plumbing of those oil feed lines and oil pressure guage routing, vacuum line routing, im lost. i also hear that drilling and welding would be involved, not really something i can do in my garage.

4_door_gsr 04-29-2010 03:08 PM

check out Turboelements.com he got my parts and helped me build my car.

phxz6 04-29-2010 03:23 PM

You need to search and do alot more research before you go turbo. Everything you need to find out about this will be on honda-tech just search and read and dont make new threads about every question you have.

Method520 04-29-2010 03:40 PM

man im doin my research, im just trying to gather a basic idea of what kind of work ill be doing, whether im gunna need additional help on the setup and what not. just brainstorming here, and ill try to keep my updates/questions in this thread

-oil return
-oil return line setup
-oil return line parts
-where to weld oil return
-oil return line
-oil pan welding
-oil pan welding
-oil grade to use
-ft for oil feed line
-oil feed line
-oil feed line
-part for oil feed line
-where to buy brass t for feed line
-oil t question
-another place to buy oil lines
-oil feed line an/npt connector ?
-feed diagram
-oil bpst fitting again
-oil feed line restrictor
-oil leaks
-oil feed 3' better
-oil pan bolts
-oil pressure readings
-oil feed fitting
-oil feed diagram
-oil pressure

-drag 3 (to) coolant line?
-closed loop turbo info
-drag 3 turbo fitment (filing block)
-vacuum source
-closed loop
-Drag3 downpipe
-Drag3 + Tial connection
-wastegate vacuum line
-feul pump for drag 3
-fittings (brass T on block)
-blow off valve tightening
-catalytic converter removal o2 sensor
-'burning' in the turbo + blow off valve ?
-drag 3 manifold boost spike issues
-drag 3 tial fitment
-closed loop dump tube
-flexpipe issue
-blow off valve adjusting/cleaning
-egt probe tapping
-o2 sensor bung
-don't use tial gasket
-intercooler direction
-drag bolts suck

-bov greddy type s (loose)

-hondata install (solder stuff)
-hondata install heiarchy
-hondata info on pumps

-spark plugs
-spark plugs (2)
-changing plugs
-flexpipe for good price
-injectors, 440 or 550
-guage for autometer
-autometer guages
-aero fpr
-best FPR?
-place to buy aem fpr
-(installing) aeromotive fuel regulator
-removing/installing intank fuel pump
-profec b install
-Radiator fans
-diff between mechanical/electrical gauges
-turbo XS boost controllers and tial wastegates
-block guard
-rc 440 injector polarity
-rc 440 after hondata install
-aeromotive fpr part #
-hks ssbv clip
-more hks bov install
-carsound cat part #
-turbo timer relay
-turbo timer wiring
-radius rods
-rear seat removal
-injector fitment
-thermal to cat issues
-egt guage stuff
-which runner to tap for egt
-aem fpr against strut bar
-tools to carry
-base fuel map
-bleeding coolant
-js safeguard
-js safeguard, who is using
-summit part
-9psi, raise static fuel + retard timing
-wires to tap for guages
-c clamp pliers for hks bov
-EGT temps
-vacuum sources
-assembling an fittings
-oem fan clearance - move to right
-greddy profec b

-installing rc injectors
-matching wires rc injectors
-fitment of rc injectors
-polarity does not matter
-once installed
-tips to install



- ebay info

- context

phxz6 04-29-2010 04:32 PM

Holy crap most of those threads are useless. Their just random question people need to have answered, look for writeups with pics and facts not theories.

Method520 04-29-2010 05:50 PM

just sayin, like i havent found much on turbo build write ups in general, yes. i have read on a few, plz dont give me the "let me google that for you" shpeal, just havent found much. but im looking.

4_door_gsr 04-30-2010 06:39 AM

did you check the site out.?

AZ_CIVIC 04-30-2010 07:05 AM

Dang I gave you a list of all the parts you need to put a turbo together. I don't understand what more you are looking for.

If you are planning on building your motor just talk to a shop and they will tell you what you need to do, but like I told the last guy who made a thread like this it will cost at least 10,000 dollars.

You can buy intercoolers, piping, oil lines, blow off vavles and wastegates for good prices.
buy your turbo from here, it is in town and he gives pretty good deals on garrett turbos.
you can go here for tuning, injectors, and Hondata.
Inline pro manifold if you decide to keep ac and powersteering, I use this manifold and made 480WHP on 16PSI. Or buy one from AFI or Full Race if you are looking for something crazy.
Moroso oil pan this is 136 dollars but it comes with a nice sump baffle, oil return line bung alread welded and ready to go and even a bung made for an oil temp guage.

Method520 04-30-2010 07:31 AM

yup

man 3rd time id had to say, im not ganna be building the motor. its gunna be a stock turbo project. thx tfor the links though, not saying you arent helping, im just brainstorming here


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