Street Car .... or Street registered Drag Car??
 

Mustangs are pretty popular, see tons at the track. They're slow but lots of people seem to be buying them.

When comparing the fact that 90+ % of mustangs (and all cars in general) at a test & tune are daily driven, garage built, normal cars to a 10 sec. purpose built drag car - of course they are slow.

But as a normal daily driven car that you can take to the track - they are fun. Not everyone wants / cares about owning a purpose built / needs a trailer- drag car.

I was perfectly happy running high 13s all night long in my 93 5.0 at test & tune. Then driving it home. Putting regular gas in it. With A/C and a stereo. And passing emissions. On cheap street tires. With a full interior. Most people feel the same way. Not everyone wants/desires a 10 second drag car to tote to the track, or pay for such a thing when it breaks.

However, I will bite on your comment a bit and inform you that a new 5.0 made it into the 9s (9.91 @ 135) with nothing other than exhaust, intake & manifold, beefier axles and driveshaft, slicks, and some nitrous. Who knows how long it could do that for being completely stock for all intensive purposes - but still cool - especially for a 3400+ lb car.

Yeah "slow" isn't the word I'd use for the new Coyotes. I mean, is 12's in stock trim "OMG SUPER FAST"? No. But 12's out of the box isn't some walk in the park, either. Especially when compared to everything else offered in the same price range.

Where did I compare my car to the Mustangs at the track? All I said was that at the track I see a ton of Mustangs and they seem to be a very popular car as of late. No where did I mention purpose built drag cars, my car or anything. Also I was saying they are a bit slow for my taste at the cost they are going for. You take a 1 sentence comment like always and turn it into some Paul rant.

Second, before you go talking about my car like you know it, have you seen my car? First off my car is full interior, no fake doors, real windows, no metal cut out, all electrical works, not even a carbon fiber hood, trunk or anything. Second my car has full coverage insurance and is registered. Third I tow my car to the track because the track is a 90 mile round trip drive and is a smart thing to do just incase something happens. I own a truck and trailer so it makes sense to tow it right? If something happens why would I want to wait for 2 hours for a tow truck to come probably smash my bumper and then charge me 120 bucks to tow it to my house? I could drive the car to the track and back but why would I when gas for my car is 10 dollars a gallon and only 2.85 for my truck.

Two weeks ago I watched a dude drive his GTR to the track and broke it, almost 3 hours later he was finally getting his car on a tow truck when I was leaving already. If I was just going to use my car for normal driving I have no problem driving it on the street, hell most of the time I drive my car down to Joe's, alignment shops, cruise it around.

This same car was on pump E85 making 500 horsepower with AC/PS and I drove it everyday to and from work for a couple years.

I think what Paul was getting at was: Guys are making new 5.0's faster than your Civic for way less dinero.

That's all.

Yeah the new coyotes aren't the fastest but doesn't take much to get them into the 11's and faster for just some bolt ons and tires.

Deadbird drove a stock 3.31 geared coyote on stock tires to a 12.7 or 12.8 at firebird

Out of the dailys I've gone through lately the coyote is great.
It has enough power so I don't get bored, it handles good and can get sideways.
After a few transmission upgrade parts it shifts fine.
I love the interior and the exterior styling is great.
I have a gt premium track pack and the options I have its a great car all around!
Plus it loves bottle haha I've only gone through one but soooo far no problems.


Once you get pass owning a mustang and only referring to it as a coyote the car is great! Lol



Paul that new mustang was gutted minus dash, one seat. But yeah with bolt ons and tires on a 150shot it went 9s

9s


10s n/a


10s

Why don't you go plexi and fake doors?
You already have the fiberglass front end. Also why not gut it?
I know you say you cruise it around some times but the main purpose of the car is to drag race.
So why not just go all out and make it lighter?
Or do you run in a class that requires glass and interior?


Your civic is badass though :thumbsup:

Which is a BS statement. Just a couple links of what was done to this STOCK CAR. List of Mods from the articles if you read them.

Upgraded Suspension: American Racing Cobra Jet Springs, Cobra Jet Shocks, Custom Made Struts, Drive Shaft Shop 1,400hp half shafts, Drive Shaft Shop Carbon Fiber driveshaft, big Hoosier drag slicks around Weld Racing wheels.

This Mustang GT has a lightweight front bumper support, skinny front tires/rims and both the rear and passenger seats have been removed.

Fuel System They upgraded all injectors to Injector Dynamics 1300cc injectors, Upgraded fuel system including bigger fuel pump, 150 shot nitrous plate kit, full Bama Performance tuning package and tune on a race gas.

It also has intake, header, exhaust and like also mentioned custom built suspension and is 255 pounds lighter than the lightest GT offered with the driver.

Let's us not forget the cost of the stock car itself. I got maybe 30k into my entire car including the car. A Comp 6265 in my car I will have a mid 9 second car for an additional 1500 bucks.

I guarantee they have at least 10k worth of upgrades to this car.

Because I run a specific class, I have already talked with Joe and am moving to a 6255 which still keeps me in the Forced Induction Sport class and will get me in the mid 9 range, still have to have it registered, insured and full interior.

a 2015 is 30-40k plus delivery and tags title license so over 40k depending options

Figured it had to do with class rules

Exactly, so close to 40k plus these guys put an additional 10k into the car so about 50k to run a 9.91, now take the fact that they are on race gas, drag slicks and skinnies, no interior doesn't make them the best DD unless you want your friends laying on the ground in the car.

The 2015 at around 40k to run a 12.8? Might as well buy a 2015 Genesis for 26k that has 70 less horsepower and runs 13.7's.

I was making a point about perception of speed. You obviously missed that. You were comparing your car to Mustangs (hence your two slow comments.)

You still have built the car to be a single purpose car - drag racing. I am not knocking that. But there is a reason why you don't daily it. There is a reason why you run race gas. You car may be street registered...but it isn't a street car. There is a big, big difference.

I wish people would learn the definitions of "street registered" and "street car" - as they are NOT the same thing.

No, I am pointing out that anytime anyone talks about drag racing or straight line someone with a fast car always has to call other fast cars (that are slower than theirs) slow.

We all know AZ_CIVIC has a fast car. What I was getting at is there is a big difference in what people who don't have a PURPOSE BUILT drag car think is fast and what people that do have a PURPOSE BUILT drag car think is slow.

Sure, a box-stock or bolt on Mustang is slow compared to a 10 second anything. That is obvious, so therefore any reason someone with a 10 second car would make that statement is to remind everyone that they have a really fast drag car.

It isn't anything personal against AZ_CIVIC, or his car. I am just illustrating that "fast" is completely dependent on perception.

Still nowhere as near modded as say - your car - and the Mustang runs similar times (albeit a bit faster.) They could probably do with a few less of the mods and still run low tens. I still don't consider the list of mods performed that serious. I could do everything they have done to that car in a couple weekends.

You get soooo defensive and irritated when you feel your car is being "discounted." Dude, we know you have a bad ass car. But you can have your full interior and all that - it is still purpose built drag car. Comparing that to a modified street car is apples and oranges - whether you like it or not.

You call them "slow" because you have a faster car, and your view of fast in on a scale relative to your car. You are a vast, vast minority of people that have a car that runs 10s. The "lots of people" buying them consider high 12s fast - like the overwhelming majority of people.

Have fun with the aftermarket with a Genesis. I would spend the extra on the Mustang solely for the engine and aftermarket.

Unbunch the Panties. Not everything is a pissing contest. We know you car is fast. But so are all the new "muscle" cars. You can't compare your car to those. Sorry.

I had a geneis before and it lacks in a lot of ways imo.
Plus a 2015 rspec is still in the 30k+ range once all said and done.

For a daily that you can slap a intake and exhaust with a tune and a few other goodies then switch out tires when ever you go to the track and run 11s or faster I think the coyote is a great car but I'm being bias too.
Overall a bolt on coyote on the street and dd is a great car it has enough power to keep you from getting bored and you can always hit up a mountain road and have a blast or take it to the drift event and get the rear end loose.
Overall race car you can't beat building a older car. For the $ vs 1/4 time.

I always find this argument funny. You have 30k in your car and it is worth maybe $10k to the right buyer. Sure newer cars (and more desirable cars) can be more expensive up front, but they hold more residual value(given certain purchasing criteria). I could buy/build a 10 sec LS swapped FD for $30k-ish, and it would be worth $30k any time I felt like selling it. Could buy a 10 sec c6 z06 for 40-45k and it'll retain most of that value.

Not to mention even if your car was a 9.9 car, and a less modded mustang was a 10.9 car, the mustang would be MUCH more enjoyable/fun to drive just about everywhere, than the civic to most people.

Since you are looking purely for a 1/4 mile car, 1/4 mile times are the yardstick by which cars are measured by. But honestly, for many of us, we could care less if it gives up a bit in the 1/4 mile(1 criteria) when it does so much else better.

I am surprised since you seem like you are in a good place financially, you have never gotten the itch to try a different platform. For nothing else than a different experience. I would be so sick of the same damn car for 10+ years. lol

See that is where you are wrong. When I said those cars were slow I wasn't comparing my car to them. I was basically saying that I have seen a big increase in the number of Mustangs at the track especially newer Mustangs running mid 13's. When I was saying it was slow I was saying for the cost of these Mustangs and what they are running is pretty crazy. 30 to 40k on a car to run mid 13's because that is what they really run or high 12's with the optimum track.

You were comparing YOUR perception of "fast" based on YOUR car to mostly stock vehicles.

You like to remind people you have a really fast car. It is why you bag on Beil about his buddy's Supra not going to the track, as well as a few other posts I have noticed. I don't blame you. The work that has apparently went into your car is worthy of such things. I would do the same if I had a car near the same caliber as yours as I would get annoyed when people bench race and post times they have yet to run - and I was out there actually doing it.


I am simply saying your perception of what is fast is not what most people's idea of "fast" is....


Personally 30-40 grand for a car that can run 12s with a good driver is pretty awesome IMO. Especially given the features, options, mileage, warranty, etc. Even better if I could drop 10K in it - and run 11s or better.

I know this is long LOL

There are a few different types of people, there are people who build cars for a sole purpose, others who buy cars for more of the rare, exotic look, something that grabs people’s eyes but don’t really have an attachment to the car and buy it knowing they have re-sale value when they get tired of it and then you have the guy who wants an overall car that can DD, get some track time with and has an ok fun power range.

You’re the type of guy who seems to look for cars not really based solely on performance but the exotic rare look. Someone who keeps in mind the values of the car so when you get tired of them you can sell them and get your money back to buy the next one. You never get attached to the cars you buy, for example like your FD, you work on it for a while, do stuff with it but can give it up that easily and you move on from car to car. You probably do not DD the cars you buy all that much, probably have a car that gets you from point A to point B and no real pleasure to drag, drift or road race the car. I could be wrong because I don’t know you but this is where I see you. There is nothing wrong with this of course but not why I do what I do.

Now on to me, I was the guy who wanted to have the fast DD, track car, road smasher. Over the years as I got older especially when my wife bought a brand new TL in 05 that wanting a car that does all these different jobs was pointless. I got tired of worrying about thieves when I go to work, the mall or anywhere I drove. I got tired of the car being loud and bumpy, I also realized that there is no point of going out and buying a new performance car because you’re back to the same old same old. I also started to realize I drive to work every day in traffic going 35mph and driving home at 35mph, sitting in traffic at a stop, having to hold a clutch in and out in and out was getting tiresome as well. At that point I figured well I like to drag race so why not build a drag car that I can take my time with, if something happens it can sit in the garage and I can get to it when I get to it. I went out and bought an automatic Acura TSX as my daily and never modified it in the slightest. The car looked good, was quite, looked professional, and was all I needed. When I want power I take my car to the track and improve on it and try new things. Just look at other guys who drag race old domestic cars, a lot of these guys have had the car since high school and none of them care about what it is worth.

Lastly the guy who wants the whole package, this is where I see Paul and a bunch of other guys. They are looking for the car that looks pretty good, is sporty and fun to drive on the road on mountains with the occasional track day. Again each of these types of people are fine, not everyone is looking for a purpose built car, a car that holds value to flip each year or the occasional track car. We all fit into these classes and I used to be in this last class but I got tired of trying to have a car for each and settled for a nice DD and a sole purpose car.

This is why I am ok having the same car, I don’t do what I do with the thoughts of how much the car is worth to anyone or what I can sell it for in two years. I do what I do with my car as a hobby and to actually use it and have fun with it. I’ve been to the track almost every week for the past couple of months enjoying the weather and having fun with the car. It is also a good feeling to not have to rely on the car either and if something happens it can go in the garage and I have a DD ready to go.

I also never bagged on Beils friend, it was some other guy who was posting videos of his friends Supra, the guys said his friend had a 1000 horsepower Supra and they were going to post videos of it at the track. A few months had passed and the guy posted another video and I asked him if he had any videos of his buddy and his Supra at the track yet. That is not bagging on someone, that was just asking if they had some new videos to post.

I also post my time slips, videos and things I am doing to my car on a Honda site, if that is considered reminding people of how fast my car is I guess I am guilty. I do what you say no one does on this site, I contribute. I figure people out there may be working on a similar project and would like some guidance or some ideas, some of you seem to take offense to that.

Also for some reason it seems that if I have an opinion my car now has to be attached in some way. It seems like if I mention anything regarding performance no matter what you assume I am comparing. 13's are slow to me, even 15 years ago when I was running 13's it wasn't that fast and in todays standards I think it is even worse.

This is a contributing factor of why people don't post here anymore, you talk about a Honda god forbid you are the Anti Christ. You post an opinion people want to kill you for it, you post some updates on some cool shit you are proud of and you get the old "you are always reminding of us" stuff. You say anything that Paul doesn't agree with you get thrown to the Thunderdome or you have to spend countless posts defending yourself. You say I get upset or offended, you took a 1 line sentence of mine and returned a nice 3 paragraph insult.

I brought up price because you did. Using your car and what you have into it as to illustrate value, as compared to say a c6 z you need to talk residual value or there's no point discussing price at all.

As for me, I want it all lol. Looks, speed, handling, everything. That's why I often have multiple cars that are good at specific things. Usually I'll have at minimum two cars that are contrasts to each other(right now isf and nsx) so I don't get bored. But I buy/build cars of various genres.. I've built quite a few cars( few subaru's, evo, etc) that I did lots and lots of 1/4 stuff with however it is boring to me these days. I get much more pleasure out of building/buying/driving all around fast Street cars, well handling cars etc. I'd rather do some air strip, 1/2-mile races. I have zero desire to 1/4 mile race at the track anymore.

I used to get attached. My first subaru mainly. But after that I realized there's so many bad ass cars out there and I want to experience them. Not all are going to be fast, some are slow, but all excite my " inner car guy" in some fashion. I just love cars and I want to drive and own as many as I can. Speed / power is usually one of my biggest criteria though.

I had a deposit on a 1k whp supra before the nsx but the ppi showed slightly odd compression test results so I passed. That was a supra built to drive not a 1k whp dyno queen. Wanted to do some air strip stuff. But maybe next time.

My fd I honestly didn't want to sell. I thought I'd have that car a few years. I got begged, daily, for over a month by a guy on norotors until finally he offered me enough cash where it was stupid to turn it down. I do slightly regret that. Only car I have any feelings about selling.

I do pay attention to resale as I'm a numbers guy by nature, and being that historically I don't keep cars it's something I need to be mindful of to not go broke lol

I'm not sure there's a car out there I could get attached to enough to keep forever. Maybe if I had unlimited funds lol.

You took my posts as in insult, when I stated there was none intended. That isn't my fault you are over sensitive when it comes to some things.

Also - most of the threads in the THUNDERDOME I have nothing to do with - or they were requested to be moved there by other members.

I also don't see this "Honda hate" comes from. Most of the nice Hondas here get plenty of love. I gave your car quite a bit of compliment in this very thread.

There are plenty of threads that I don't agree with on here that never end up in the THUNDERDOME so don't try and use that to justify your e-dislike of me there. The THUNDERDOME was formed by committee. Never once have I ever banned anyone for disagreeing with me either.

But this is all crap for the hate Paul thread in the THUNDERDOME.

Why are you mad that I said you are proud of your car? I have a crappy slow Miata and I take every opportunity to show it off or talk about it. No Honda Hate at all. If I had a 10 second anything it would be all over the place.

I don't see how you get so worked up over me saying that your perception of "fast" is different than what the majority of other people here.

That's what I like about you without having to know you. It makes plenty of sense in what you do, I am a numbers guy myself and I fully understand that what I put into my car will not be gained back if I decide to sell the car. This is why I keep the same car, if I built drag Hondas and decided to sell them each year I would lose my ass. Now we are different in the sense that you enjoy driving many different cars and want to drive as many as possible but understand that values are also important. If you buy a crap ton of cars and dump money into them without having a good market you will always lose. I like quarter mile driving you don’t which is totally fine. I think doing the ½ mile runs would be pretty fun but I don’t have a damn 5th gear anymore so I lose LOL. I don’t really get excited to drive a bunch of different cars or even have a street driven sports car, I have a wife and a kid so I don’t have time to roll like that LOL.

I also like drag racing for the challenge, I don’t feel it is as easy as smashing a gas pedal and running like some think. The slightest miscalculation and a run can suck, a quick change in a tune makes a big difference, I get exited going from zero to 150 in 10.0 seconds but always need more. I guess that is also why I keep going with the same car, I could change it up and try something different but that basically means going from front wheel to rear wheel. I have thought about doing it a few times and came close. I have some good friends like Joe and Aaron who really help me out and also keep going regardless. I guess it is kind of fun and a challenge to make these front wheel ricers do what they do and it’s fun. Who knows what I will like in another 15 years but for me I am having fun with what I got and really can’t wait to swap the turbo out in a few months and see how 9’s feel LOL.

I used to see/here that all the time, "fast is relative." Back in the racing days...

I used to be so proud of my 14 sec accord, but theres always someone faster... always.

The new coyotes have indpendent rear suspensions now?

Hellcat challenger wow.
Ive always owned hondas, but before I owned a car i was very into classic/muscle/lowriders...

Now i just hope one day my stubbornness doesnt keep me away from american.

I absolutely agree. Drag racing is much harder than many people understand. Big difference between just running a car at the track and being happy with whatever time you get and fully dialing it in to extract every last drop out of a given setup(suspension, tires/pressures, boost by gear etc) I'm sure you know all about the nuances of setting up a proper drag car.

I'll say this. My first subaru I absolutely loved. I bought it brand new at like 18-19(2001). It was likely a similar fixture in my life as your car. I took that car from new through soo many setups, turbos, engines, wheels, etc. The car got stolen/joy ridden into a telephone pole. After that I just never built an attachment like that again. Nothing can replace it and I always say I'd likely still have it now if that hadn't happened. So believe me I get where you're coming from. It'd also be similar to your car where it wouldn't be worth me ever selling. I'd just add to the collection. For the 10k it's worth its irreplaceable.


I'd wager if you ever moved onto something else you'd feel more like me in the sense that nothing quite will hold that special place in your heart/soul as your current car. They might be faster, nicer, more luxurious etc it won't matter, it'll never "feel" the same, or fill that void.

Honestly, I've always admired your car/build and your attention to detail and doing things right.

Yep, I used to keep an eye on your FD build and like you I try and make sure I get quality over quantity. I try and use the right things and right parts for my car as you did.

I also agree I still love looking at the car everyday even after all those years. Like you said other cars I get are just cars to me you know, I always take care of my cars and make sure they are well maintained but my Honda is the money put LOL. I also have been buying and selling cars I get from the auction and now cars are really starting to just feel like cars with no attachment at all.

AZ_Civic....you know you can get a 2011 GT 5.0 for under $20k now, right?
So that whole ($40k to run 12's) isn't really the case.

What's your point? We were talking about the 40k 2015 GT Bama Performance Mustang with 10k of upgrades that you were saying would beat my car, the one Paul brought up into the conversation.



These are also the specs of the 2011 GT with a crap tons of extras and when tested ran a 13.0@110, MSRP 40k plus tax, title and license. So in 2011 you had to spend 40k plus to buy a 13.0 second Mustang that has depreciated in half within 3 years? Sounds horrible if you ask me.

I would at least follow Spec C's advise and buy cars that hold value if you're going to go that route and spend the cash, cause according to you these car have lost over half their value in less then 3 years.

Paul can you explain to me the big big difference between street registered and street car and why my car wouldn't be considered a street car?

correct me if I am wrong

I think he means would would drive your car to work, then an hour or so to the track on a summer day change nothing about it, aside from the tire pressure, and run 10's still?

On one hand you have a 10 second Civic. On the other, a 10 second GTR.
One is going to absolutely suck dick driving daily....I think we all know which one.